INFO-ATARI16 Digest Mon, 20 Nov 89 Volume 89 : Issue 678 Today's Topics: 68030 processor upgrade project Anti-Atari Bashing Flame (long - sorry) (2 msgs) Gadgets by Small - Possible new '030 add-on board! Problems booting w/accessories... spectrum and quantumpaint formats STe TOS BUG (2 msgs) Vapourware!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Nov 89 18:22:20 GMT From: mcsun!unido!tub!tmpmbx!netmbx!hase@uunet.uu.net (Hartmut Semken) Subject: 68030 processor upgrade project >In article <3424@uafcveg.uucp>, cjy@uafhcx.uucp (Calvin Yockey) writes: >> >> P.S. I am VERY excited at the prospect of David Small providing a low cost >> upgrade path to the 68030 and TI Graphics chip! Go to it, Dave! As far as I recall, Dave wrote, he'd like the TI graphic chips. He did not mention including it in the 030 upgrade. He also wrote, he would not support the 256k-ROMs till they are wildly availeble. I'm very interested in this board; hope, You'll get it running. Spectre speedup would be fine; TOS speedup even better... Dave, would You like to get some information about the related german project PAK68 ans PAK-TOS? hase -- Hartmut Semken, Lupsteiner Weg 67, 1000 Berlin 37 hase@netmbx.UUCP Dennis had stepped up into the top seat whet its founder had died of a lethal overdose of brick wall, taken while under the influence of a Ferrari and a bottle of tequila. (Douglas Adams; the long dark teatime...) ------------------------------ Date: 19 Nov 89 22:54:56 GMT From: philmtl!atha!rwa@uunet.uu.net (Ross Alexander) Subject: Anti-Atari Bashing Flame (long - sorry) steveg@SAIC.COM (Stephen Harold Goldstein) writes: >Seems to me the people bitching at Atari have no one to blame but >themselves for not making a more careful decision before buying. If >the TT isn't what you want, DON'T BUY ONE! Good idea. I think I'll buy a PS/2 - then I can keep my software investment intact, right ? Or less tersely, many of us feel Atari is holding us hostage because although we could afford (easily) to go to another vendor for a hardware platform, we're trapped by our current software and data. I for one have easily $2,500 tied up in packages which work well, and with which I am happy, except that the hardware platform has been completely outstripped. I can't put a value on the data I have lying around at all - ghods know how many hours I have tied up in that. So I'm pretty well committed to going with Atari again. Unfortunately, Atari appears to think that this gives them the opportunity to ignore me, and to slant their market offerings to buyers at the low end, without losing the sale, and with no loss to themselves. I don't like that very much - I feel I'm simply being taken for granted. Anyone else out there feel like a captive too ? If I'd gone with Big Blue (ugh) I could get a real powerhouse clone now from any number of vendors and keep my software. This would be nice. As for Greg Lindahl, yourself, and the rest of the cheerleaders: what's _your_ investment in ST-line equipment? In software? In data that only makes sense in relation to the afore-mentioned software? In hours spent learning the twisties of programming in the AES/VDI/GDOS environment? I'm on the hook for quite a few $$$'s, and many, many hours. I've got a 1040, 85 meg drive, two monitors, jato board, memory upgrade, tons of other stuff, magic sack, I can't even keep track of it all. Have you noticed that many people expressing unhappiness w/Atari have similar large investments? I do not consider myself a casual complainer. Hell, I'm even a registered developer! I want to buy a real high-end cpu/video section. I don't see it yet; the tt/p comes close but lacks expansion. The tt/x may be it, but it's a little too far away to bank on. I see _lots_ of high end stuff from other vendors that I can't buy because I've already spent my money. Where's my upgrade path, d*mnit? Ross ------------------------------ Date: 20 Nov 89 05:56:50 GMT From: gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!aplcen!haven!uvaarpa!hudson!astsun.astro.Virgini a.EDU!gl8f@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Greg Lindahl) Subject: Anti-Atari Bashing Flame (long - sorry) In article <1253@atha.AthabascaU.CA> rwa@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Ross Alexander) writes: [ describes how Atari had what he wanted a while ago, but that it hasn't kept up with what other companies have been doing... ] Well, this is a problem everywhere. Talk to all the science types who bought VAXes in 1980 only to have to convert to Unix because DEC wouldn't sell them fast boxes. And then DEC starts making fast VMS boxes again. >So I'm pretty well committed to going with Atari again. >Unfortunately, Atari appears to think that this gives them the >opportunity to ignore me, and to slant their market offerings to >buyers at the low end, without losing the sale, and with no loss to >themselves. Er, the TT isn't really much of a "low end machine" in any configuration. You can't sell millions of home computers if they cost over $2,000. So you have a curious definition of "low end". >As for Greg Lindahl, yourself, and the rest of the cheerleaders: >what's _your_ investment in ST-line equipment? In software? Well, first off, I'm hardly a cheerleader. I've NEVER said that I think the ST is a price/performance winner. And I've never said I thought Atari's marketing policy was good. I've only been playing devil's advocate and pointing out obvious flaws, hoping that the flame war will end. And, yes, I have a big investment: about 1/3 of my total material possessions is my ST. However, most of the software I use (terminal emulation, LaTeX, Maple, Fortran) is portable elsewhere. I've spent some time understanding GEM programming, but that is useful when I program on other windowing systems. I got what I paid for in the first place. >I want to buy a real high-end cpu/video section. I don't see it yet; >the tt/p comes close but lacks expansion. Wait until you see one. Then you'll know enough to make this statement. ------ Greg Lindahl gl8f@virginia.edu Astrophysicists for Choice. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Nov 89 17:45:26 GMT From: mcsun!unido!tub!tmpmbx!netmbx!hase@uunet.uu.net (Hartmut Semken) Subject: Gadgets by Small - Possible new '030 add-on board! In article <3322@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU> ins_bac@jhunix.UUCP (Ajay Choudhri) writes: >In article <1989Nov16.180311.23182@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> nemeth@gpu.utcs.UUCP (Gabe Nemeth) writes: >[PAK68 68000-proc replacement with 020/881 availeble now] >Available now...well could you post more info for us non-europeans. >I'd be interested in seeing some specifics on this.. >compatibility, speed increase, etc So, here t goes: The PAK68 is an c't project. c't is a german computer magazine. Instuctions to build it were published some time ago, together with full circurit description. compatibility: none. TOS doesn't run; a TOS version hacked to run is not very compatible (why, why did Atari use line-F for anything but floating point?) speed increase: well, the 020 runs at 8 MHz. The circurit was not designed specifically for the ST... circurits like Turbo-16, CMI speed or the like were designed for the St, so they can fall back to 8 MHz wherever necessary and run at higher clocks when the async BUS is used. The PAK68 has support for high speed SRAM on a daugterboard. But nobody made this availeble to TOS; the custom chips (DMA and SHIFTER) cannot acess it (their adress registers are inside the MCU, so they can only acess the MCU-supported DRAM). And most programs do not like to run in anything but the standard RAM... overall the speed increase is compareble to any 16-MHz 68000 accelerator for the ST. With ther german RTOS (nothing to do with TOS!), the PAK helps a lot more, cause RTOS can use the cache, the 020 specific instructions and the 881. I exspect the Gadgets board to help a lot with Spectre and do almost nothing for TOS. The ST is a closed machine; a compatible, faster redesign is pretty exspensive. TOS not only does not support processors other than 68000, it fights them :-( hase -- Hartmut Semken, Lupsteiner Weg 67, 1000 Berlin 37 hase@netmbx.UUCP Dennis had stepped up into the top seat whet its founder had died of a lethal overdose of brick wall, taken while under the influence of a Ferrari and a bottle of tequila. (Douglas Adams; the long dark teatime...) ------------------------------ Date: 19 Nov 89 15:02:58 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!dcl-cs!gdt!gdr!exspes@uunet.uu.net (P E Smee) Subject: Problems booting w/accessories... In article <1669@fredonia.UUCP> sale5312@fredonia.UUCP (Marty Saletta) writes: > > I've got many disks with accessories, AUTO programs, etc. Sometimes >when I boot up with such a floppy (I'd guess about 10% of the time) I >get the computer loading a few of the accessories, but then doing a >cold or warm boot in the middle. It's like someone hitting the reset >switch during bootup before the GEM Desktop appears. I went through a phase of that sort of problem, and it turned out to be being caused by nothing more than a couple of bad sectors on the disk. The sectors were only marginally bad (misaligned or weak, maybe?) so they didn't always bite. You might try looking at that possibility with a disk-checking program. A boot disk gets a lot of head travel, and since boot disks tend to be fairly static and always accessed in the same pattern, it is easy to believe that you might get one sort or another of physical wear to account for this. In any case, I solved my problem by the simple expedient of remaking (on new disks) all of my boot disks which showed suspicious sectors; and I have avoided the problem since by making it a practice to run a disk-checker on my more commonly used boot disks once every couple of months. Worth a try. Sure, your problem might be more complicated, but it's easier to check for the simple possibilities first... -- Paul Smee | JANET: Smee@uk.ac.bristol Computer Centre | BITNET: Smee%uk.ac.bristol@ukacrl.bitnet University of Bristol | Internet: Smee%uk.ac.bristol@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk (Phone: +44 272 303132) | UUCP: ...!uunet!ukc!gdr.bath.ac.uk!exspes ------------------------------ Date: 20 Nov 89 04:14:39 GMT From: gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!xanth!xanth.cs.odu.edu!scott@tut .cis.ohio-state.edu (Scott Yelich) Subject: spectrum and quantumpaint formats Some more quick questions - Does anyone have information as to how spectrum and quantum paint programs are able to make the ST display more colours than usual? I'm especially bewildered as to how quantum paint can display 3375 colours or more! Any info appreciated... My quantum paint is pretty useless... I have not seen a conversion program from quantum's own format over to any other (gif would be best!) and so the images are neat to look at... on my atari... in quantum paint.... but besides that, they are useless. Also, my quantum paint screws up the colors whenever I get more than 30-40 of them on the screen at once! (it does that nasty recalibration and changes the colors from like green to red!) I have not used my version since that happens to me EVERY time. Scott -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott D. Yelich scott@cs.odu.edu [128.82.8.1] After he pushed me off the cliff, he asked me, as I fell, ``Why'd you jump?'' ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 19 Nov 89 23:57:19 GMT From: mcsun!sunic!kullmar!pkmab!daniel@uunet.uu.net (Daniel Deimert) Subject: STe TOS BUG Just a short PS. I have found out what freqs they're using. Quite odd ones, really. They are 6258 Hz 12517 Hz 25033 Hz 50066 Hz With other words some kind of crystal divided with 1, 2, 4 or 8. Right? Someone who knows how I can generate an interuppt with this freqs for my sample-routine? Or will there be a new version of ST Replay and similar packages? Is patching possible? (Of course it is?!) What about upgrades? Think it's time to disassemble NEOWALL now. -- Daniel Deimert, Fridstav. 4, S-715 94 Odensbacken, SWEDEN Internet: daniel@pkmab.se UUCP: ...?uunet,mcvax?!sunic.sunet.se!kullmar!pkmab!daniel ------------------------------ Date: 19 Nov 89 13:56:55 GMT From: mcsun!sunic!kullmar!pkmab!daniel@uunet.uu.net (Daniel Deimert) Subject: STe TOS BUG Maybe we should make a list of bugs in the new STe's TOS? I don't know if it has the same bugs as the normal ST's TOS 1.4, but sure it has bugs! The most obvious one is that it's impossible to record the resolution desired in DESKTOP.INF; whatever you save you will always end up with low rez. A quick fix for this is to save the desktop on a normal ST. Otherwise you can get any texteditor and change the #D-entry (I think...) to 13 instead of 12. I get some funny errors in the screen sometimes, when pulling up and down the menus. Looks a bit like an old version of QuickST, the desktop doesn't redraw correct. THis happends both in DevPac 2, UniTerm and the desktop. BTW, the soundchip base seems to be $FF8900 -- maybe could someone from Atari be kind enough to post a list of equates for the different adresses, and the freqs used? I can play a sample right now; but I can't sample with the right speed! (I'd love to have the MFP setup!) -- Daniel Deimert, Fridstav. 4, S-715 94 Odensbacken, SWEDEN Internet: daniel@pkmab.se UUCP: ...?uunet,mcvax?!sunic.sunet.se!kullmar!pkmab!daniel ------------------------------ Date: 17 Nov 89 01:56:10 GMT From: snorkelwacker!spdcc!merk!xylogics!cloud9!jjmhome!m2c!wpi!jdutka@CS.BU.EDU (John Dutka) Subject: Vapourware!!! 1000x7000 PIXELS? You sure about that? +--------------------------+-------------------------------------------------+ | John A. Dutka (jdutka) | You've heard of the SI system of units, and the | | WPI | British system of units. Well, now, we've got | | 100 Institute Road | the WPI System of Units (WSU). More later. | | Box 2308 +-------------------------------------------------+ | Worcester, MA 01609-2280 | BITNET: jdutka@wpi.bitnet | | United States of America | INTERNET: jdutka@wpi.wpi.edu | | (508) 755-7128 | USENET: husc6!m2c!wpi!jdutka | +--------------------------+-------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #678 *****************************************